I consider myself to be a reasonable, rational, and logical individual. I served 24 years in the Army and Army Reserve, and served on the Island of Grenada during Operation Urgent Fury, and as a Company Commander of a unit deployed to Operation Desert Storm. I’m a retired Veteran, and I’ve had a reasonably successful civilian career. I have watched this impeachment process with great interest. I followed the hearings, I double checked the facts for myself with multiple sources. I believe that those Americans who have been elected to serve in the US House of Representatives must be reasonably competent in order to be elected by their constituents. So while I make up my own mind, I respect that reasonable people may disagree.
I have to admit that I am confused. There have been two Presidents actually tried by impeachment, and another, President Nixon, only escaped an impeachment trial by resigning his position as President. President Trump is the third President to face an impeachment trial. Let’s all be honest with each other, impeachment is a partisan political process. Sure there are exceedingly important constitutional obligations of Impeachment, but the previous impeachment trials were both partisan and political. That disappoints me at a very basic level.
I want, and I even believe, that our government is honest, disciplined, and dedicated to service of this great nation. Yet I know through this process that wasn’t the case here. The Inspector General Report spells out how this whole trial was based upon falsehoods and contrived accusations that were demonstrably false. The FBI made SEVENTEEN “mistakes” in the original surveillance of the Trump campaign. Now as I said, I consider myself to be “reasonable and rational”, so I would expect that “mistakes” would be evenly distributed on both sides of the situation. Yet surprisingly, beyond any expectation of random chance, all SEVENTEEN “mistakes” went against President Trump and his campaign. That just doesn’t pass the common sense test. I’m sorry, something in those seventeen “mistakes” stinks in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable. I don’t believe in seventeen “mistakes”, I believe that someone tipped the scales of justice against President Trump. There is no other rational conclusion that can be reached.
As to the phone call with the President of Ukraine, reasonable people can disagree about what President Trump “meant” by his words, but I saw nothing wrong with what was discussed. A very good friend of mine (not a Vet) told me that President Trump asked a foreign leader to conduct an investigation into a political opponent, former Vice President Biden. I don’t see that. But to my friend Fred, I said this; 1) There is over 7 Billion Dollars of MISSING foreign aid. The United States DESERVE to know what happened to that money. 2) Then VP Biden admitted that he told the former President of Ukraine that they needed to fire a Ukrainian prosecutor who was investigating the missing US aid money. Furthermore (then) VP Biden bragged that he threatened that he would withhold a Billion Dollars of loan guarantees if the prosecutor wasn’t fired. Incredibly, the Prosecutor was actually fired. VP Biden BRAGGED about this, and I saw the video with my own eyes! What I said to my friend is this: If the political opponent doesn’t want to be investigated, then the political opponent shouldn’t do something that would bring about an investigation! VP Biden BRAGGED about his demand for an actual “QUID-PRO-QUO”! How can honest people not see that and recognize it, and furthermore realize the reasonableness of an investigation into that admitted to “quid pro quo”?
I watched the impeachment trial proceedings tonight on TV. I watched as people I consider to be intelligent and reasonable people disagree so decidedly and decisively. I watched as the Democrat party took a decidedly partisan position, as I watched the Republican party also took a similar partisan position. Yet I review the facts, and I cannot see the Democratic position. At ALL! Am I blind? Stupid? Am I partisan myself? How is it that I cannot see the Democratic position at ALL?
I have watched this whole thing play out in front of my eyes. I watched and listened to everything since the President was elected. I observed as multiple attempts were made to impeach this President. Fifty-Eight members of Congress voted to impeach President Trump because he had made some comments about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem being played at NFL games … does ANYONE think that is a righteous use of Constitutional powers to impeach a President? I’m sorry, I am confused. I am confused, but more, I am sad. I am sad, and more than a little concerned.
Why sad and concerned? Because our nation is more divided along political lines than I can ever remember in my lifetime. It used to be that during elections, we were Democrats and Republicans, but after the election, all would come together as Americans. That simply is no longer true. I’m not placing blame on either party, rather both parties. I blame myself as much as I blame my democrat friends. We cannot “see” the same things. We cannot agree on the “facts”.
I often say that I LOVE the “TRUTH”. The TRUTH is always the TRUTH! We might wish it were different, we might want to ignore it, we may want to deny it, but it doesn’t matter – the TRUTH is ALWAYS the TRUTH! It is sure, constant, factual. That is a beautiful thing if we let it be beautiful, even if we don’t like it, isn’t it comforting to KNOW that it is the TRUTH? Unchanging. Solid. Dependable.
If this impeachment trial and process has taught me anything it is this. Due to our political partisan beliefs, we no longer agree or admit what is the TRUTH. I offer this opinion, without agreement as to what is the truth, as a society, we are doomed to fail. Reasonable people can disagree about opinions and attitudes, but can we disagree on “FACTS”? Facts are TRUTH! If we cannot agree as to what is the TRUTH, we will NEVER be able to coexist!
So what is the TRUTH on the issue of this impeachment? Democrats believe that President Trump is GUILTY! Republicans believe that the President did NOTHING WRONG. I must admit that I am in the latter camp. I DO NOT believe that the President has done anything wrong. I do NOT believe that he should be impeached. I DO believe that whoever is responsible (individuals or groups) for the in excess of SEVEN BILLION dollars of missing US foreign aid should be identified and prosecuted! Isn’t that truly what President Trump asked for when he asked “I’d like you to do us a favor”? I want to understand. I want to see and honestly discuss what the Democrats see that I simply cannot see and understand.
So the President of the United States, President Donald Trump was impeached by the US House of Representatives by a House divided by partisan lines. This impeachment will not result in the removal of President Trump. We can be reasonably assured that the US Senate will vote along partisan lines to acquit President Trump. I honestly believe that President Trump should NEVER have been subjected to the original investigation, nor to any form of an impeachment trial! Yet just as fervently as I believe in his innocence, there are friends of mine who are just as firm in their belief that he is guilty. In my mind, the FACTS do not support impeachment. In my OPINION, the Democrats are absolutely wrong. I am firm in my logical evaluation of all the facts, rumors, innuendo, and even the “mistakes” that allowed this specious investigation to be conducted that this impeachment was conducted for partisan, political reasons, and had zero basis in TRUTH! Yet there are those people of reasonable intelligence that absolutely DISagree with me on this!
So where are we now? In my mind, we are standing at the precipice. We are at a critical point in the history of this great nation. If we are so divided by partisan political filtering of facts that we cannot agree on what is the TRUTH, is there any way forward that does NOT include some sort of division? If there is no recognition of facts and truth, where does a divided nation go? What direction forward? What is the pathway that we can travel together?
My Brothers and Sisters, perhaps the answer lies with us. In today’s America, Veterans are appreciated in a way that we were simply not always appreciated in the past. I wore the uniform in the 1970’s, and there was no one telling me “Thank You for your service” back then. But today it is different. I wonder, are Veterans as divided on the issue of impeachment as the Democrats and Republicans? Let me know what YOU think. I know Veterans for Trump will be against impeachment, but what about Veterans you know, are many of them supportive of impeachment? Let me know. If we as Veterans can agree, can we help sorve the divide of the general public – the Democrats and the Republicans?
If not US, then who? If not now, then when? If we cannot bring our nation together, If we cannot agree as to what is the TRUTH, I fear for our future.
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I am for the President and did not see what the dems seen, The dems are wrong. The only Vets that I see that were for impeachment are ones who have felonies and/or are still having legal problems. If things are not set right I feel that there are plenty of people who will fight in a civil, since the dems want to start one
Excellent points and questions Mac! My optimism has diminished with time. President Trump has uncovered the mess that has always been there in both parties. In my humble opinion, some on both sides are scared of Trump.
Without term limits, there will always be the establishment that works for itself rather than putting America first.
I saw this when I was first invited down to RNC HQ in DC back in 2016. It was a large meeting of the various grassroots leaders for Trump. There were over 20 of us with reps from the RNC and Trump Campaign. Here is a link to 18 who made it back from break for the photo.
It did not take long to realize some in attendance were there for themselves. Others were there for their country and cause. Power, notoriety, greed and other human conditions corrupt otherwise good people. I spoke directly to that subject during my 60-second intro speech that day.
I don’t know what the answers are. We are a nation in spiritual and patriotic decline. This is our last hope of turning our country back from the brink. If we do not there just may be a civil war as Ray suggests in his comment. I hope politics settles on the side of right before that happens.
Your questions are good ones:
A famous philosopher once asked, “what fellowship has light with darkness?” The answer to that is fairly obvious. One must win out over the other or be divided forever.
For three years the demorats and their shills in the Fake News Media have put President Trump, the First Lady and their family through ‘hell”. Their lying, despicable FRAUD of impeachment borders on Sedition. The demorats have declared war on US, the American people. Now, shipmates and my Veteran brothers and sisters, it’s our turn to declare WAR on them. Not with ‘bullets’, but with ballots! Any candidate with a “D” after his or her name, local, county, state or national, gets a DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE on 11-03-2020.
Lest we forget, the Fake News media: WE have the ‘power of the purse’, cancel every newspaper and magazine subscription that supports the demorats. Don’t watch CNN, MSNBC, ABC< CBS,NBC< NPR none of them, and tell their sponsors why your family is not watching their Hate Trump and US bovine excrement. Three years ago we cancelled a real liberal rag, the Cleveland Plain Dealer and have saved ourselves $450. Not chump change. And because so many others subscribers cancelled, The Plain Dealer is down to only three days a week in print edition, as are many other liberal rags. Soon they will be bankrupt.
THIS is how WE fight. If you love our beloved country, your children and grandchildren you will FIGHT like HELL to support President Trump with your time and money if you are able;
and volunteer for his 2020 Campaign.
If we don't, the only thing we have to lose is OUR COUNTRY and FREEDOM.
To the demorats, from Hosea 8:7 – "Ye have sown the Wind; now REAP the Whirlwind of Veterans for Trump!"
BRAVO ZULU, MSGT! Well Done.
Kudos to you Captain Mac! Your ability to succinctly and definitively relate your opinion(s) to your reader(s) is strong and I look forward to each and every one of your posts. I fully agree with you but I also ask myself this: What could cause such a large number of individuals (Democrats) to collectively lose their minds? What is is about Donald J. Trump that makes these people (many who before he became POTUS actually LIKED him) lose all concept of fairness and reason? Granted, he’s brash, he’s bold, and he’s ‘in your face’; I know this, but to cause so many to assume the visage of unhinged, deranged madmen? Something’s just not right.
Personally, I think that when it comes to those on The Hill who are trying so vehemently to remove him, they are guilty (all of them) of crimes that if uncovered would send them TO JAIL and THAT’S why they are coalescing so fervently and strongly to have him removed. They realize that he’s not a ‘member of the club’ and that he threatens to bring them ALL down. I pray for my President EVERY TIME I PRAY these days. Even at the dinner table! I never felt the need to do that in the past. How odd that it’s a fear of harm coming to him BY HIS OWN COUNTRYMEN AND WOMEN that scares me so!
Thank you for your insightful and poignant comments, sir. I (for one) truly appreciate them.
I am amazed that no one sees any problem with Trump calling for an investigation into the Bidens.
Since there is nothing wrong with the President investigating the Bidens, why was it wrong for Obama to investigate Trump?
Why did all the GOP scream when they thought Obama ordered Trump investigated but cheer when Trump orders the Bidens investigated?
Jon B
Thanks so much for taking the time to register your opinion and your question. Too often, people are reluctant to offer an opinion that might be in opposition to the original thought/opinion because differing pinions today often lead to shouting matches instead of rational debate. I hope we can avoid shouting at each other and have a reasonable debate.
I appreciate your question, because I cannot see your point of view, and I truly would like to understand. You see, I view the Obama led investigation and the Trump led investigation very differently. I’ll explain why I do, and I hope in return that you will explain why you see things the way you do.
Here is the President Trump statement that has everyone so upset about his asking for an investigation into his “political rival”, Vice President Joe Biden:
(From the Transcript) (Trump Said):
“Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that’s really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what’s happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it…It sounds horrible to me.
(From the Transcript) (To which President Zalensky replied)
“I wanted to tell you about the prosecutor. First of all I understand and I’m knowledgeable about the situation. Since we have won the absolute majority in our Parliament; the next prosecutor general will be 100% my person, my candidate, who will be approved, by the parliament and will start as a new prosecutor in September. He or she will look into the situation, specifically to the company that you mentioned in this issue. The issue of the investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore the honesty so we will take care of that and will work on the investigation of the case.”
As I read this, this is the part of the call that references Biden **
“The other thing, There’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it…It sounds horrible to me.” **
As I read this, it is apparent to me that even though the name “Biden” is mentioned, clearly President Trump is talking about corruption (there is the matter of over SEVEN Billion Dollars of US foreign aid that is MISSING!) and “stopping the investigation” and that “Biden went around bragging” that he stopped the investigation. To me that is a reasonable request – especially given the video evidence of VP Biden admitting himself that he used the promised “Loan Guarantees” as the “Quid-Pro-Quo” to get the Investigator fired.
In context of the conversation, President Zelensky replied
“The issue of the investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore the honesty so we will take care of that and will work on the investigation of the case.”
He understood that the issue was NOT an “investigation” into VP Biden and his son, BUT rather “making sure to restore the honesty”.
As I read and understand the “plain language” Jon B, it seems to me that President Trump is trying to investigate corruption regarding the Billions of dollars of US foreign aid that have been “missing” – while President Zelensky (who himself was elected on a platform of “anti-corruption”) seems to understand completely that an investigation is warranted and needed!
Now, as to President Obama and his administration investigating President Trump, will you stipulate that the investigation was prompted, and (primarily) authorized based upon the “Steele Dossier”?
If you are willing to agree that the Steele Dossier was in fact the primary/original reason to authorize the investigation of then-candidate Trump, we can move forward from that point. (If not, I can explain all the many and various reasons that the FISA warrant and the investigation into known Trump associates would never have been authorized without the Steele Dossier ~ which the FBI had to assert was “verified” in the warrants)
So I’ll start with the Steele Dossier. It was funded by the Clintons. Hillary Clinton was the political opponent to Candidate Trump, so the Steel Dossier was really “opposition research”, and by the way, the Steele Dossier has been completely debunked as false and salacious. The Steele Dossier was given to government “friends” of the Clintons, and that “opposition research” document was treated as “truth”, and the primary reason to begin the investigation of Candidate Trump.
My view then is this. The “Steele Dossier” was false. Therefore the investigation on Candidate Trump that followed using the Steele Dossier as primary resource to justify the investigation was thus also false.
There you have my logic and rational. I’d be happy to have you “prove me wrong”, and to “change my mind”.
Back to you Jon B! Your turn Brother!
Mike Ward, Just saw your “Girl Scouts”, “panties” response. Sounds like you’re losing it. You must be a tough guy. Oh, and Spanky besides being “ordained by God” he is also lazy, needy, weak and afraid. Please keep contributing to the delusion of Spanky’s cult. Spanky needs your help to keep Vlad happy. You’re doing a heck of a job. Bless your heart.
Another contributor heard from… and PJ wants to be all tough and stylin’ … wow. Put on your big boy pants PJ.
Been my experience that those wanna-be tough guys usually aren’t. If you are one, you don’t have to tell anyone.
So get the girl scout panties out of you mouth snd try to engage your brain before putting your mouth in gear. As my old Drill Sergeant used to say … don’t let your shotgun mouth overload your .22 guage ass!
So, it’s “Spanky” and “Vlad” for YOU tough guy? You’re funny. Funny like a cheap hotel. You know the kind with no ballroom?
Visit here all you like BJ, but be civil while you’re here, otherwise you’re just demonstrating your ignorance and lack of class.
You’re trying to be funny PJ? You failed! As my favorite President would say … ” You’re Fired”
HAHAHAHA …. and hey tough guy, funny man PJ?
Bless your little heart (too)!!!
I normally don’t respond to mindless, witless, useless trolls but in your case, I’ll make an exception. I’m not quite sure what “girl Scout Panties” response to which you’re referring (proof positive of your lack of knowledge on how to use English grammar) but rest assured that what ever I have to say about your President, it’s more than likely SPOT ON compared to any mud you choose to sling at him. See, the problem with you ‘NevrTrumprs’ is your inability to use FACTS when expressing your disdain for him. Instead you all choose to use your fragile little FEELINGS and I don’t know if anyone has told you yet but…facts don’t give a DAMN about your feelings.
In little over 3 years, YOUR President has achieved more and accomplished more than practically any other national leader before him. There’s honestly no telling how much more he COULD have done for this country had he not had to worry about dealing with the likes of you. I would say “Shame on you!” but in order to know shame, one has to have a sense of pride and (seeing you’re so adamantly AGAINST him) simply your presence on a site called VETS FOR TRUMP voids that notion.
I would like to make a few suggestions. First, check the site I have provided at the end of this comment and SEE FOR YOURSELF just exactly what this President has done for you and the rest of this country. Second, you should really seek psychiatric therapy for the TDS which has wracked your mind and caused you to peruse websites which clearly espouse belief systems different than your own and all for the sake of soothing the butt-hurt you feel. Third, GET ONBOARD THE TRUMP TRAIN! Grow a pair and use some common sense! Say goodbye to those haters and join the fastest growing trend in the country right now: THE MAGA CREW! I promise you, you WON’T be sorry. 😉
Well written, my friend. MAGA!!! Trump/Pence2020!!! Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and yours. 🙂
Nope, no felonies here! Can’t locate and legal problems either.
David Weissman, an Army veteran who abandoned his support of Trump over a year ago, published his thoughts via his blog on The Times Of Israel on Wednesday.
Referring to Trump as an “unpatriotic president” Weissman said that “real veterans who remember their oath will support impeachment.” Wednesday marks the first public impeachment hearings for the president as Democrats push forward with their investigation on if Trump used his office for a personal favor during a July 25 phone call with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy.
The Army veteran elaborated to Newsweek, “Our oath as soldiers, the first line of it says we will defend the Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic.”
Weissman opined that Trump “violated the Constitution” by calling Zelenskiy to request an investigation into 2020 Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden, and his son Hunter, as well as alleged interference in the 2016 presidential election by the Ukraine.
“For violating the Constitution, I believe he deserves to be impeached,” Weissman wrote.