A regular commenter, Jon, posted a series of questions in the comments section of the previous post. I am pasting in his comments and will bold the answers. Minor grammar corrections have been made. The original comment is located here. Note: I don’t care if Jon is a Troll. Jon sometimes uses troll-like ad-hominem attacks. Not in this case so I will answer. He is a fellow veteran so I ask those who may comment to do so with as much respect as you can muster.
One of the chief goals of Vets for Trump is to help create a dialogue between veterans of various political views. We also talk about issues that affect America as a whole. After all, veterans are also citizens that are concerned about the same issues as everyone else. Our job as members of the military was to defend everyone in America, not just one political party or view. We welcome all who have sincere questions and those who struggle to understand why we view President Trump as the best President for our time.
As a reminder, having come out of a Special Operations unit that focused on information warfare I am especially tuned to propaganda. See definitions 2 and 3 from Websters Dictionary so we are clear on what I mean when I say propaganda.
2: the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3: ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one’s cause or to damage an opposing cause also: a public action having such an effect
Begin comments by Jon and my replies
Jon: So no one has a problem with the President using Military Aid to extort a foreign government into cooperating into investigating his political opponents?
Mike: Foreign aid being withheld for that purpose is an accusation without evidence. The President of Ukraine also stated that there was no pressure. That is called corroboration. Also, Rep Ratcliffe said it best:
“At the end of the day, this was about quid pro quo and whether or not the Ukrainians were aware that military aid was being withheld and on that most important issue. Neither this witness or any other witness has provided any evidence that there was a quid pro quo, or any evidence that the Ukrainians were aware that military aid was being withheld on July 25,” Ratcliffe said on “The Story” Tuesday night, claiming that absent testimony speaking to that point, “a quid pro quo is legally impossible.”
The background of investigating what part Ukraine played in the 2016 elections started long before Biden said he was planning a run for the White House. We cannot help it if Biden decided to run. Does running for office prevent a person from being investigated?
Jon: No this is not a real investigation.
How long Ago did this supposed crime take place?
How long ago did Trump take office?
Why wait till now to push for an investigation?
Why use his personal lawyer to do his dirty work?
Trump did nothing on this until he needed to dig up dirt on his political opponents. Until Joe Biden became the frontrunner, Trump did not care about this.
Mike: In a nutshell, several things caused Trump to wait on this. First, Ukraine had just elected a new President, Volodymyr Zelensky, who ran on an anti-corruption platform. In other words, he also promised to “drain the Ukraine swamp” as some might put it. People would do well to remember the previous Ukraine government was very corrupt and under the influence of the Obama – Biden administration. That’s how Joe Biden got them to fire the guy investigating the company known as Burisma. He directly withheld funds and said so.
Biden threatening Ukraine by withholding money seems much more corrupt than Trump asking Ukraine to look into the corruption. So, Trump’s timing had to do with the move towards an anti-corruption government winning in Ukraine.
Presidents are also allowed to have personal lawyers. It is interesting to note that a fall out from the Mueller investigation is an Obama lawyer was charged with lying about Ukraine! Click here for the story that will make you think about this harder. April 11, 2019, from Reuters.
Jon: I wish we could see a real transcript of the phone call. What was released is obviously not the complete transcript as it covers less than half the length of the phone call. What was released clearly shows President Trump using Military Aid to force the Ukrainian Government to investigate Biden. Plus, Mulvaney flat out confirmed that this was the way Trump conducted foreign policy.
Mike: See previous answers which dispel this notion.
Jon: Trump using the Government to get back at his personal enemies, as well as using it to increase his personal fortune should raise concerns.
Mike: Flatly wrong according to anti-Trump people as well as supporters. You are standing alone here. First, there is no telling what Trump would be worth today if he had not become the President. That is the only place figures differ. Even the Democratic Party admits he has lost at least 1.4 Billion.
Jon: The Impeachment was just as one-sided, except it was the Republicans who wanted to impeach Clinton for cheating on his wife.
Voted Yes on Each Article
# Article I Article II Article III Article IV
Democrats 206 5 5 5 1
Republicans 192 188 166 180 122
Independents 1 0 0 0 0
Article 1. The president provided perjurious, false and misleading
testimony to the grand jury regarding the Paula Jones
case and his relationship with Monica Lewinsky.
Approved by House 228-206
Article 2. The president provided perjurious, false and misleading
testimony in the Jones case in his answers to written
questions and in his deposition.
House: Failed 229-205
Article 3. The president obstructed justice in an effort to delay, impede,
cover up and conceal the existence of evidence related to the
Jones case.
Approved by House 221-212
Article 4. The president misused and abused his office by making
perjurious, false and misleading statements to Congress.
House: Failed 285-148
Mike: No argument. I will not defend the Impeachment of Clinton. It should have been a censure. If Bill Clinton had done the same things today his own party would have crucified him under the Mee Too movement. Anyway, this is a great point. Impeaching or attempting to Impeach Trump may well backfire on Democrats just like it did on Republicans. Look at how much money Trump raised over the Impeachment vote.
When the left says Trump is a misogynist I can’t help thinking that it was Bill Clinton that opened that door. He was more popular after being Impeached and having sex in the Oval Office with a 22-year-old. However, Trump has not received an accusation of that since he took office, unlike Bill.
One big difference is Republicans gave Clinton 6 years before talking about Impeachment. Democrats started talking about it before Trump was even sworn in.
A little fact-checking would go a long way. Notice how I reference, with links, every point I make that might be questioned. Jon and many others should at the very least be skeptical of what they read and hear. Reporters and Editors rank themselves liberal to conservative at a 5 to 1 ratio. Don’t take my word for it. See the former CEO of NPR Ken Stern. Add to that the fact that over 96% of donations from so-called journalists went to Hillary Clinton over Trump.
In conclusion, those last two facts should make every thinking American cringe. Remain skeptical my friend, remain skeptical.
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Impeccably presented and decidedly overwhelming in presenting the case that the present s**t show (commonly known as the Trump Impeachment Proceedings) have NO SIMILARITY with the impeachment of Bill Clinton. Mike, you’ve got a strong knowledge base and I’m so very happy that you see truth. Not only do you SEE truth but you present it so well when confronting those who are ‘hung up’ on feelings and emotion. This ‘Jon’ character seems to be just another ‘parrot’ spouting anything and everything he hears from his fellow leftist brethren. Kudos, sir and thank you from the bottom of my heart!
Hi Micael. Thank you again for your kind words. I have gone back and forth with Jon via email in the past. I offered to speak to him on the phone. However, Jon has a speech problem and said it would be difficult to carry on a conversation. I believe him and in the emails, he has not used invectives of any sort.
I see some people as victims and there but for the grace of God go I. That could have been me without the life experience I was so graciously given for this purpose. We cannot brag or boast about gifts that we have received. I am thankful to God and the country for all these things.
If I am not mistaken this is the attraction that President Trump has. He loves his fellow Americans. Everything he does he is doing for U.S. (pun intended). If he sees someone who is not grateful he calls them out. Thanks again, Michael.
Why even try to debate with Trump haters. It doesn’t matter that this president has done more for the individual in 3 years than the last one did in 8. It doesn’t matter that he is getting us out of these endless middle eastern tribal wars killing thousands of our young people. Everyone one knows that Hillary was to be coronated and – oops she wasn’t.
Hi Bill. Many have asked me that question. A book could be written answering that. It is part of 61 years of experience and interaction with people that leads me to this place. There are some I will not address because they can only make emotional points. The fact that Jon asks questions that do have answers means I will take the time when I can to answer those questions and objections. In addition, it might be instructive to others who happen to stumble upon the debate.
I only knew a few vocal Democrats when I was serving. One was my Wing Commander. We had a number of lively debates. He liked me and I liked him even though we disagreed on many points. This man also saved my career. He knew I was right even though I accidentally jumped the chain of command. It was a potential life or death situation. Long story and probably not as interesting as these few lines might imply.
Suffice it to say we are brothers first and I love my brothers and sisters in arms. I will go as far as I can with each of them until or unless they prove they are not worthy of my time. As I may have implied in the comment to Michael, I see Jon as a victim. He is like a wounded man on the battlefield. He is our brother regardless of his political views.
From Military Times
WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump acknowledged to advisors that he made up a fake injury to avoid military service, because “I wasn’t going to Vietnam,” his former lawyer told lawmakers during testimony on Wednesday.
Michael Cohen, who also worked as a fixer for Trump before his election, said he was tasked with tamping down criticism of the military deferment as the presidential candidate simultaneously mocked Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, for being regarded as a military hero. “I like people who weren’t captured,” Trump said during a July 2015 interview.
“Mr. Trump claimed (his medical deferment) was because of a bone spur, but when I asked for medical records, he gave me none and said there was no surgery,” Cohen told members of the House Oversight Committee. “He told me not to answer the specific questions by reporters but rather offer simply the fact that he received a medical deferment.
“He finished the conversation with the following comment: ‘You think I’m stupid, I wasn’t going to Vietnam.’”
And the rest of the story is: “Trump has downplayed his relationship with Cohen and claimed he is fabricating stories about their work together in order to negotiate a deal with federal prosecutors for a lesser sentence on a host of unrelated crimes.”
I can play he said / he said game all day long. Allow me to point you here.
Also note: According to a Snopes fact-check post, Bill Clinton used connections with the naval reserve and the draft board to sidestep service so he could attend Oxford. Later, Clinton signed up for the ROTC program in order to avoid being drafted — but never served there, either.
Why has this history never damaged Clinton’s reputation? Probably because he never dragged the country into a war during his eight years as president. Look it up.
Interesting side not on the Snopes linked posting. They fail to mention that Senator McCain attacked Trump and his supporters first. When it comes to characterizing the Khans they do admit the Khans attacked Trump first. See one of my several posts on the McCain vs Trump controversy.
“drain the Ukraine swamp”
So we are abandoning our allies in Syria because we have no interest in saving Kurds’ lives, but we will go to steal oil.
However, we are going to interfere in Ukraine because we have what? Which one of our National interests is at risk in the Ukrainia?
MIke- Unfortunately, it seems there are TWO sets of rules: One, a never ending “Get out of Jams and Jail pass’ for the real criminals, seditionists, and lawbreakers; the other set for Republican and President Trump.